thorfinn: <user name="seedy_girl"> and <user name="thorfinn"> (Default)
[personal profile] thorfinn

I bought a Drobo, and configured and formatted it last night. Copied the data from my previous external storage disk (which was failing with block errors). Plugged it into the back of the Airport Extreme, and voila, it's just working. Time Machine is happily grinding away doing its thing, and it's very nice knowing that we have 3TB of raid storage that is protected against single disk failure. I didn't have to install any drivers, work out any raid configuration details, or fiddle any settings - there essentially aren't any to fiddle.

This is essentially representative of what I'm enjoying about the current state of play in computer technology - quite a lot of things are falling out of the Corporate Price Point down into the Small Business / High End Consumer Price Point.

A few examples:

  • Mobile Broadband (Satellite, early GPRS/3G vs ubiquitous 3G/EDGE and wifi)
  • Compute Cluster (SUN, IBM, HPUX, etc vs Google Apps, Dreamhost, etc)
  • RAID/NAS (NetApp, iSilon, etc vs Drobo, lots of other manufacturers too)
  • Portable Computing (Blackberry vs iPhone, Android, Pre, Netbooks)

What's nice and interesting to note is that the Usability Fu really really matters in this zone. Corporates can afford to just suck it up and pay an expert to integrate a solution (and are almost invariably doing something weird and custom enough that they would have to even with "off the shelf" solutions). Small Business and High End Consumers don't have the time or the money to spend on Integration Experts and Solution Architects. It just has to Plug In And Work. If it doesn't work just like that, you can't sell it effectively in this price point.

Ordinary people are starting to expect computing technology to Just Work and be Easy To Use. And so they should. So, if you're in the industry at all, "It's a tricky computer thing" is not an excuse any more. It should never have been an excuse in the first place. If it's hard to use, find another supplier with a more usable product. They're starting to exist.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-29 08:58 (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Mobile broadband was pretty good-to-go from the start - open the box, insert the card, follow the bouncing balls.

The problem with all of these things is they're not getting consumer acceptance, really. They're getting "power user" acceptance. I've always considered the Drobo to be a very expensive way of building a 4-disk array - but you're right, the interface is designed to be pretty much foolproof.

The biggest move forward for this sort of tech is making it look pretty. iPhone, Drobo - both took existing concepts, put a shine on the interface and most critically - put it in a shiny box. Previous consumer NAS products have all been cuss-ugly and hence haven't sold well. Previous complex phones have had a crunchy interface and have been pretty cuss-ugly and .. haven't sold well outside a corporate market.

I think it's all in the fancy case. Make it pretty and it'll sell.

Andre (not on the DW bandwagon)

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-30 00:33 (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ltempt
(I'll get around to fixing up DW at some point) (done)

The thing that bugged me about the Drobo pricing was expense against other 'consumer' boxes that include NAS. I'm not really in the market though - despite dealing with such things for a day job, I haven't yet reached the burnout point. So I'm still willing to put up with a reasonable level of interaction with the machines during the setup phase.

One of the things about storage appliances (and RAID cards, they're even less trustworthy) is the classic question - "what happens when it breaks?". I know Drobo have a statement on this, but most manufacturers just quietly assume their hardware will never break, while worrying about spindle failures. Failed RAID cards have led to so much data loss over time. At least I know if my fileserver snuffs it, I can pull that zpool out and pop it in another box without stress.

On the interface front, I like the idea of a simple interface - with an "advanced" button. Or a "BEWARE; DRAGONS" button. The trend towards feature simplification - for example, having to mess with about:config in Firefox instead of having menus for those options - is frustrating because it becomes harder/impossible to make changes outside of what the interface designer felt was important enough to put at the front.

I could really thump someone at Sony for the interface changes they made in the last major Playstation3 update - an attempt to unclutter the menus has decreased usability, and *there's no option to turn it off*.

Actually, taking a quick peek back at the Drobo website - they're now doing an eight-bay unit that talks iSCSI as well as Firewire-800. That's pretty cool.

My biggest beef with RAID boxes has been this whole four spindle limitation. I have a zpool of 4 x 750GB spindles that's approaching full. I could replace them with 2GB spindles, but that still has a clock on it as far as capacity goes, and 2GB spindles have a shabby reliability record to date. Eight way is pretty damn good.

The only problem is the price starts at $US1499 - which is too huge for a box with no Fibre Channel/SAS connectivity.

I'm not sure home penetration is going to be as simple as an interface cleanup, either. Getting people to see the value in redundant storage seems to be a problem, almost as tough as getting people to see the value in backups...

This is turning into a ramble - probably best done with drink in hand. Fancy a bevvy sometime?

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-30 03:01 (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ltempt
While the core Drobo product might be cool, the DroboShare isn't exactly causing much excitement. Reviews are mixed, and reviews which include performance aren't good - one cited time to write a 780MByte file as "Wired gigabit Ethernet - 2:10 (6MBps)". That's not good for a device with four spindles. Actually, it would be very good for a device with a single spindle. Yes, I'm missing the point of consumer hardware. But it does mean that a 2TB Drobo would take a couple of days to write to. I would hope that the iSCSI enabled DroboPro would do wire-speed for a single workload - big performance gap.

Plugging it into a Linux box defeats the point of an appliance and turns it into a hell-like mess of high power consumption, additional management, performance bottlenecks and generally makes it more appealing to just stuff more disks in the machine. Besides, Linux .. smelly.

I doubt ZFS is going anywhere with Apple, really - they've pulled all references to ZFS from their marketing material and have been very, very quiet on the subject. ZFS isn't really cut out for consumer hardware, from a desing point - it expects I/O subsystems to honour cache barriers, for example, and that's just not a given in a land of USB storage. ZFS is nifty stuff, but it wasn't designed to be a consumer filesystem and probably never will be.

Apple's marketshare has managed to climb to around 10% - a big step up. That still leaves 90% of desktop users not able to enjoy Time Machine and such features. I'm not using with with my Mac - but I avoid keeping anything valuable on an unmirrored machine and have an rsync cronned to cover the stuff that is there. Not exactly user-friendly, though.

Re: Usability is Pretty

Date: 2009-09-29 16:59 (UTC)
damien_wise: (Default)
From: [personal profile] damien_wise
...which boils-down to "keep it simple".
Elegant design is as much about functionality as aesthetics.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-29 10:16 (UTC)
tyggerjai: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tyggerjai
So it'll do NAS via the Airport extreme? Presumably to things other than Mac?

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-29 21:18 (UTC)
blithespirit: (Default)
From: [personal profile] blithespirit
I don't think we're in happyland yet. I wasted most of the last day of my holiday trying to get Time Capsule set up to play nicely with my parents satellite broadband modem. Over 2 hours on the phone with Apple tech support and the ISP, and still no joy. There are so many different variables that go into a system like this. Sigh.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-30 00:21 (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I just looked at their 8-disk version - FireWire, USB2 *and* iSCSI/GigE?

I wants one!

<--nigel

(no subject)

Date: 2009-09-30 10:59 (UTC)
cyflea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyflea
I dunno, the Drobo failures I've been hearing about don't sound endearing. I hope you don't have to experience them! The setup experience is all very well, but what happens when it fails?

Relatedly. I wish I could recover all the time I wasted fiddling with ReadyNASes for work. They're everything that's wrong about whacking a basic web interface on top of a Linux box and hoping for the best.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-10-05 02:35 (UTC)
cyflea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyflea
You're preaching to the converted re: multiple backup locations. Either way. I wasn't really talking about it in terms of RAID failure, merely Drobo failure. I was excited about them at first, but haven't heard encouraging things about their support or their stability.

(no subject)

Date: 2009-10-05 04:17 (UTC)
cyflea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyflea
That's probably true, but having been through the wringer already with another consumer grade RAID type solution (as chosen by other people!) I'm loath to put myself up for a second round.

I wasn't particularly referring to people expecting too much of the product either. For a single example, see http://speirs.org/blog/2009/1/28/drobo-its-part-in-my-downfall.html (which did eventually get solved, but not everybody's a popular Mac developer blogger...). There's a few others too, one of them just recently.

For the money, I'd personally just buy a pair (or more) of normal external drives and deal with it.

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